Creationist people are funny. I mean that literally. It’s only fair, they take everything literally too. Well, sort of. It’s a well-known fact and easily provable, that creationists only take what they like in the bible literally–the rest, they ignore.
I continue to post really great stuff on Facebook, most of it from scientists who happen to also be believers. I spread it around. There are Catholics, and Lutherans, and Presbyterians, you know, mainstream religious folks. And they all point out the silliness of trying to claim that the earth was formed in six days.
Normal people nod their heads and wonder what all the fuss is about, since logic is a part of daily life you know. I mean if evolution were not true, then when the human genome project was completed, there would have been a hue and cry of world-wide proportions had the DNA not supported our evolution from “lesser”beings. As it turns out, we learned something we had not thought true–some homo-sapiens today actually have DNA from Neanderthals in their bodies, proof that a more primitive humanoid actually mated with those who would ultimately become us.
All this is beyond the average creationist of course, since they are unable to wrap their compartmentalized minds around actual facts. Life is so much simpler when you simply decide what would make you happy and then “make it so” in your mind. There are dozens of shysters out there willing to take you money in return for a good sounding story that meets your needs.
Of course, such mindless ones are also prone to “doubt” anything else that they find troubling in their white-centric (and that is most always the case) world. They stout-fastly deny that the earth as portrayed in the bible is FLAT and that the “heavens” are a dome which keeps out the “waters” which surround everything. No, that doesn’t work for them, so literalism takes a flying leap off the edge on that one.
Since I was peppering the Facebook page with a lot of actual *gasp* science, one of our creationist types figured to “get enlightened” so on the advice of others of her myopic kind, she ordered her some books from a site that specializes in helping people remain god-awful ignorant of the truth.
And she read them. Or at least tried to.
And then she told the Facebook crowd all about what she had learnt. It had to do with “if the earth was so old then we would all be buried under tons of cosmic dust”, and something about you know crab nebula only occurring once every 100 years, so where are they all? And if you count people the right way, and not the scientific way, somehow, it comes down to just 2 people some 6,000 + years ago. General junk like that.
Which proved that not only did she not think of any of this stuff herself, she didn’t understand most of what she read in the first place.
After I had deciphered the “arguments” I went to the science. Most of the really good and big ones just have an archive of these silly assertions and a scientific proof to explain the errors. (Talk Origins is great for this by the by should you get asked one of these “yeah so, explain this” questions).
Some of you may recall that there was a thing that ran around Facebook a few weeks ago about a test given to grade schoolers about “science” and most thought it a joke, until the school system (a Christian school) fessed up and said it was theirs. Anyway, at the end, was a question which tells you that this is all about indoctrination and not about actual science. The question was “And what do we say when people tell us that the earth is millions of years old?”
The answer is “Were you there?” Yeah that’s what crazy fundie parents are teaching our children to say in response to a scientific fact. And lo and behold that question also exists on the Talk Origins “creationist arguments”.
I found every single one of the lady’s “arguments” on Talk Origins. They are simplistic and easily dispelled. The offerer of course doesn’t understand a thing about what they just regurgitated. They aren’t meant to. They are happy to find somebody who agrees with them, who writes in a way that sounds all scientific-y, and is not understandable by them certainly. (This makes it likely to be true).
I cited scientific responses and the appropriate links to read the truth in full. (By the way NCSE is another great site for scientific responses and information on evolution and climate change). Of course there was no response from the creation lady.
When I asked for her sources, since her arguments were not hers but something she admittedly read in a book, I got the stonewall. “You won’t read them anyway!” she whined. No of course I’m not going to line the pockets of a charlatan, but I will look up his name and read reviews of his book(s) and alert others where to go to read about his credentials.
But she won’t give them to me. Plagiarism is a darn sight less dangerous in her eyes than giving her sources up to scrutiny by others.
Truth is scary stuff to some.
I suppose next she will be telling me that Revelation is all about the Catholic Church being the beast. That seems to be the level where those of her kind end up.
What does all this mean?
Not much. It is just that willful ignorance of this sort is that voice that I hear that tells me that these folks shouldn’t be allowed to vote, and definitely not raise children. They should be set down on farms far away from normal people where they can engage in their fantasies without harming others.
But then that conflicts with the other voice that tells me that I don’t approve of limits to who can vote (heck given their level of duh, I figure we couldn’t go too wrong with letting chimps vote either), and I don’t think we want to go down the road of who can procreate either.
The nice thing is that the two voices conflict and I have to resolve the dilemma, something the fundie mind can avoid. So far I come down on the side of freedom, but if these people don’t stop annoying me with their nonsense, well, I might be persuaded to at least make chocolate unavailable to them. I mean it’s a treat they should be denied, just for being so darn goofy.
Jerry Critter said:
The creationist’s mantra:
“Don’t confuse me with facts. My mind is already made up.”
exactly right. They so need it to be the truth that they will go to any lengths to do so, including being caught in the hypocritical position of favoring every scientific advance that helps their life, but denying the “rest of it” as atheistic conspiracy backed nonsense. It is amazing how such a mind manages to take out the garbage on the right day of the week. !END
I keep waiting for a creationist-type to ask me “Were you there?” regarding the age of the earth so I can say to them, I’ll answer that if you’ll tell me who chronicled the conversation between God and Satan as they toyed with Job
List of X said:
I had the same reaction. It could be more appropriate to ask them “were you there?” when they say that God created the universe 6000 years ago.
I agree, but when you ask them questions they invariably look at you blankly, smile and change the subject. They are taught (I kid you not) that such real questions are evidence that the person is possessed by Satan. They are not to argue with Satan, merely retreat, for Satan might capture them with these evil and untrue questions. !END
Good answer! Another of my favorite books…Job…so awful to read it literally. Makes for a very nasty god in my opinion. !END
I held the creationist view point at one point in my life, with the caveat that “In the beginning God created the heaves and the earth” was a one time event at the beginning of time, with a lot of space/time between that and a recreation/remodeling of the earth and Adam and Eve story. I think that gave me a sense of ‘being in the know’, and secure in my convictions. Security is what I think “Creationists” want most in their views, not so much a scientific verification.
All trippy stuff to blow one’s mind with.
Yes, all this is only for one purpose, to feel safe. Nobody would rationally go to such lengths to deny the obvious if their very sanity were not at stake or so they think. It’s so neat and tidy to have all of life with the covers a book. I do get it, just can’t live without using my brain. Such a waste. !END
ironically, I consider myself a creationist, because I believe in a divine creator force, and not that all this “just happened.” However, I’m not of the mind that it happened swiftly, or just 6000 years ago, or that it’s as it says in the bible with Adam and Eve. I don’t reject evolution, but rather, I ask, “Why not both?”
I know, I’m weird. But that’s truly how I feel.
Since I saw that disturbing test, which I did at one point post on my blog, I’ve had the urge to ask my in-laws if that’s what they believe. It occurred to me that their church also has a school….
I can’t bring myself to ask them, because I don’t think I could keep my mouth shut about science, and it would end up being another upsetting conversation for all of us. But I do wonder.
Joey, let me assure you, you are not saying “why not both”. Most believers simply realize that God is the ultimate creator, he simple and quite apparently used evolution as his means of developing the vast array of life we see on this planet and possibly on others. I see God as setting down the laws of physics which govern the formation of the universe, which He knew would inexorably lead to life, and some places at least, sentient life who were “programed” to seek Him. Thus we begin the dance of love. So yes, we all are creationists in a sense, not just the literal biblical variety who insist on turning metaphor into scientific fact as the fundamentalists do. 🙂 !END
Thank you, that was quite comforting. I agree with you. I could never be so concrete and literal, not that I would try! 😉
hehehe, You are such a smart person! !END
well, I am kinda creationist at heart, and it being a chilly day, I do believe Ima gonna create some brownies.
Oh, do send some this way. I didn’t know you could make brownies with beer. I assume beer is in every recipe you have right? !END