Dr. 
George Tiller is dead. He was killed by some demented anti-abortionist activitist. Most of the right-to-lifer groups are trying to distance themselves. Not all, but most.
Dr. Tiller did what was and is legal in the United States of America. Agree with him or not, he was practicing medicine, as a fully licensed physician. I’ve been given to understand that Bill O’Reilly took him on as a special “cause” to be stopped. Well, he’s been stopped, killed by an assassin while ushering in his church as the congregation looked on in horror.
Why do I have something to say about this? I haven’t anything particularly news worthy to say. You can get better up to the moment information from any number of online news sites. But I’m angry, not quite beyond words, as you can see, but enough to set aside a more humorous post to speak my piece here today.
The issue is responsibility. Who is responsible here? The nut case that pulled the trigger? Certainly. But I would suggest that a whole lot of others are morally so as well.
The past couple of days, I’ve been engaged in a conversation with a gentleman on a forum, about fanaticism. He’s been defending both himself and another who are utterly rude and viciously mean to posters who don’t agree with them. It’s their “way” of “defending” the church.
I pointed out a truth to him. That in the past couple of months, three people have indicated so much disgust with the behavior of a couple of people there, that they were seriously thinking of changing their minds. In two cases, people had come to the forum to investigate Catholicism, thinking they might want to join. They were becoming convinced that if this was representative of that faith, they wanted no part of it. Another had converted to Catholicism two years ago, but was so distressed at the manner and method of some individuals, that they were considering returning to their earlier faith traditions.
One can argue of course, that people within a church shouldn’t be the prime motivator to one’s decisions like this. But the truth is they often are. In all three cases, I counseled the individuals to spend time in a local parish, talk to RCIA people and priests. I said that I doubted that they would find such people in most Catholic churches. I rather thought most priests would agree that such behavior was wrong and not supported by the institutional church.
As to the gentleman in question, I asked, would you want to be responsible for causing someone to leave your faith? He of course responded that that wasn’t his fault, their faith was weak if that’s all it took. He said categorically he wouldn’t change one single thing about how he “defended” the faith.
I have written here of my experience with a co-worker who committed suicide. We had never gotten along. No one had any idea this person was on the verge of suicide. It was hard to figure out why it had happened. I learned a lesson that I have tried to keep in the fore front of my mind when I encounter difficult people. And that is simply that I don’t want to be the final straw in someone’s life. I don’t want to be the “that’s enough, I’m ending this life,” person in anyone’s life.
I no doubt don’t do as well as I should or as I would like. But when I see evidence that someone is unbalanced, I back off. The trouble is, as I said of my coworker, there is not always evidence.
Those who are against allowing women the right to make decisions about their own bodies are entitled to their opinion. It is a severely difficult issue, and honestly no one is in favor of abortion. We all wish desperately that other answers can be found. Some of us, in the end, feel we have no right to invade this very private place and dictate to any woman how her body will be used, and how her life will be altered.
So I am not laying the blame for Dr. Tiller’s death on all those who are against Roe v. Wade. No, I reserve that place for all those who rant with increasing violent rhetoric, calling those who perform abortions “murderers,” and those who support them, the same. I reserve that place for those who show vulgar ugly pictures of fetuses, and practice the “in your face” kind of demonstration. Who scream at nurses and workers, who vilify and torment women trying to enter clinics. Who invoke their personal belief that God is going to punish and send to hell all such persons.
They have, with systematic legal knowledge spewed forth their hatred and their venom upon the public, knowing that some of that public is unstable and mentally deranged. Those folks will take that righteous indignation and turn it into a personal challenge to act for God, and become the crusader who exacts God’s justice when the government fails to act to “do what is right.”
These activists will claim they didn’t personally counsel any such violence, but in fact they did. It is legally called, having the “reasonable belief” that one’s actions and words would cause the actual result. Were those results in fact reasonable foreseeable?
All the pundits, right and left, who try to whip up the “base” on any number of issues are taking this risk. The risk that others, who are out of control emotionally, will misconstrue the remarks and think they are being told that the truly righteous must act. And act they will, and act they do. That is what is so damning about an O’Reilly and a Hannity and a Limbaugh, and a list of others that is frighteningly long.
This is madness. And I stand and point my finger and say SHAME. It is you, you self-righteous puffed up arrogant, self-styled morality definer who will stand before God and weep, “I had no idea, Lord, I had no idea. I thought I was doing your will.”
Leave God to God. He’s had a good deal more experience with being God. Try to work on taking that damned plank out of your own eye.
Existential Ennui 
Tiller died because he was a baby killer, one specially in killing late term fetus, viable fetuses, babies.
One man stepped outside of the broken laws of this land and put down a piece of filth who had murdered countless American children without even the argument – it’s a valid one by the way – that they weren’t human yet because they were too young to be viable.
Of course I’m not a Christian and I don’t hold the absolutist view of the sanctity of life irrespective of what has been done with that life.
Dr. Tiller was not a piece of filth.
jonolan, you can have an opinion, but you indict yourself as part of the problem. Lawlessness is no answer, and you, no doubt proudly bear your guilt for the murder of another human being. Sleep well.
Diane, no he was not. He was doing what is legal in this country. Across the blogosphere, mostly I see nothing but horrifed responses to this heinous crime. Sadly a few think it an appropriate response. But then, this post was written about them, so it stands to reason.
That what Tiller did was legal in way imparts any rightness to his acts of infanticide. Much the same as the rightness of Roeder’s act imparts no legality upon it.
A man that butchered thousands and thousands over the span of decades is now dead, but the man who exterminated him broke America’s laws to do so.
I firmly believe that Roeder must be tried for his crimes for the sake of the greater good, but don’t expect me to be sad in the least little way that Tiller is dead.
sigh….this is a tragedy.
Thank you for writing this. Here is a shorter, but good, article by Jim Winkler “The Assassination of Dr. Tiller.”
Your troll needs to get righteous about the war crimes and the innocent people that the Bush administration killed with their “war on terror” bullcrap. Boy does he make me mad!!!
I don’t at all understand the reasoning behind acts like this. It’s a lynch mob mentality, and I can never justify that.
Liberality,
You expected solely “love fest” post and comments threads on an issue like this?
I male no apologies for the fact that I’m not bothered by Tiller’s execution and feel it was a great public service. I also make apologies to the other side for wanting Roeder tried for the crime of murder in the killing of Tiller.
What is Right is not always legal. What is Wrong is not always illegal. To my mind, when possible, both Law and Justice must be served.
I would expect Jonolan to get a gun and shoot GWB. What death toll has he rung up in the name of Legality and Right? How many Iraqi children has he killed?
Not very likely, okjimm. I’m not much of one for punitive murder and GWB is out of office. Besides, I wasn’t rabidly against the Iraq war; Saddam was a creditable threat to the US.
Of course I’m getting the feeling that a lot of people on this blog have serious cases of Bush Derangement Syndrome. 😉
okay jonolan. Enough of your cowardess. I fully believe that you don’t pick up the gun. You wouldn’t because your are a hypocrite. You claim that Dr. Tiller butchered thousands. If that is what you really believe, than you are morally obligated to act to stop it, and of course you didn’t. You don’t want the consequences of that and spending a life in prison. So by your hate-infected rhetoric you like others hope to incite the mentally troubled into doing your dirty work for you. You actually don’t care at all. You are lacking in empathy, and your real point is that somehow this, as well as gays, and any other liberal works impinge on your “right” to have what you want. So don’t tell us how much this was wrong.
We are a nation of laws, and when we don’t like a law, we work to change it, we don’t kill people who are operating under it. That is how a society works.
I’ve stopped by your site, and seen what it contains. You hate a large variety of groups. Such hatred allows I guess a certain type of person to feel “important” since they aren’t ________. Don’t waste our time.
To the rest of the commenters, Jan, Liberality, OKJim, Ruth,thanks for the comments. It is hard to understand why a segment of society operates in a way that encourages the less balanced among us to resort to violence. I truly do think that they use people like this, at least a portion of them quite hope this will happen.
The sad thing for me is to go to places like Vox Nova and forums and see “religious” people basically saying the same as our troll here. Somehow murder isn’t so bad when it’s to those you disagree with. If there is Christianity in that, then I’ll eat the proverbial hat.
Ahh, Sherry. You misunderstood my comment.
I was responding to okjimm who expressed a desire for me to kill GWB, who is no longer a threat to anyone. That would be exacting punishment, which I do not have the right to do.
Exacting punishment or retribution is far different from acting to stop an ongoing crime of violence. For myself, I see no use in killing the abortionists; it provides no pragmatic solution to the problem unless they can all be killed, which is beyond the realm of credence.
As a final question – would you kill a man to save child from being killed by him? Now take into account that others have a different criteria for what a child is before claiming people are trolls or hateful.
I’m sorry I couldn’t say more yesterday than “Dr. Tiller is/was not a piece of filth.” To be honest, I don’t know Dr Tiller. Like all of us, he is a complicated human being. From women who went to him, I heard he was a kind and compassionate man. I’m not a big fan of abortion myself, and especially late-term abortion, but I have read many stories of women whose babies would have been born dead or would have died soon after birth.
It’s not black and white, much as we might wish it to be. I’m really not for abortion on demand, and I have known women who have had multiple abortions, and have later felt that they did commit a grave sin, because it was inconvenient for them.
I also wonder about the state of health care in this country. Imagine that you are poor, and you have just learned that you will have a child with multiple health problems, but you don’t have the means to care for such a child. You don’t believe in abortion, but would that child be adopted, if you could not care for it?
just one of the reasons I am for health care reform in this country.
p.s. yesterday I was just in shock that he was murdered in his Lutheran church… I am a Lutheran, too, and it hit too close to home.
JOnolon, I respond as much to your first comment and your use of the word “murder.” It was not and is not, since it is legal. I stand by what I said, it is hypocritical to use pejorative untrue and inflaming words when you yourself don’t act to stop what you name a horror, yet you hopefully incite others to do it for you. It smacks of pure cowardess. You’re not going to go to jail, and that’s the point isn’t it?
Nobody is ignoring that people have a right to oppose abortion. We all do. That is not the issue. The issue is do you approach the subject willing to look for solutions or do you engaged in trying to bait the opposition using unfair language, hoping that you can set off some nut. To do the latter is to suggest that you truly don’t have any real feelings at all, it’s just convenient for your own agenda to operate in this fashion.
Plenty of serious people who oppose a woman’s right to choose can talk rationally, and fairly about the issue without resorting to this kind of screed.
Diane, it is a deeply hard issue. There is no question that most all of us want to find solutions that avoid this choice. It is one that can and is being abused by some. It is the salvation for countless women as well, saving their lives both literally and figuratively. Lynda at Essential Estrogen posted a compelling one about how her own life was saved by a pregnancy gone wrong. I’ve read of others as well.
Dr. Tiller it seems was someone that women who were in desperate physical trouble could look to. In any case, we all (or at least most of us) agree that murdering him is not an acceptable solution and but hardens the sides in this awful debate. Thanks for you comment.
Sherry,
So you consider my language unfair. Have you never done the same to whose whose view you found utterly evil?
I noticed that okjimm’s and liberality’s pejorative untrue – under your criteria of requiring illegality -and inflaming words went unchecked. Mine, not so much. 😉
You see – we all do what you’re complaining about. In this case, a cause you support is just on the receiving end of it, much as some of mine were during the last eight years.
Diane,
You are, of course, absolutely right in that it is not a black and white issue when one looks beyond Tiller and to the larger issue of abortion.
Despite what some here believe, I would never advocate for a total ban on abortion. I do lobby hard for a total ban on abortions that are not necessary for the PHYSICAL health of the mother.
I do not in any way, shape, or form believe it is a woman’s right to choose her social, mental, or emotional comfort over the life of another person.
And going back to Tiller – he did, in fact, on occasion perform 3rd trimester abortions for the sake of the “mental health” of the mother. That is a large part of why I described him as filth and feel no sadness over his death.
sorry, jonolan, I still do not regard him as filth. And even though I find your words reprehensible, I don’t find you filth, either.
I find much sadness over Dr. Tiller’s death.
Jonolon, the point of my post was that we are all guilty of using enflammatory language and we don’t always stop to think that it may be used in terrible ways we don’t anticipate. That is what got me hot, that you saw nothing of value in what I said, but just returned to the same violent ridden language.
Using the word killed is not using the world murder, which carries significantly more vitriol.
Whereas I see little or no reason to avoid such language because to do so weakens the message carried in those words.
People should be outraged by some things and we shouldn’t use “fair words” to gloss over the facts of these matters.
Of course I’m not offended by your “getting hot” or calling me a troll and a coward. Nor am I bothered by others’ comments in my direction. You and they were offended by my words and my views and reacted accordingly.
I guess we have many fundamentally divergent views beyond the issue of abortion / infanticide (not this time meant to be vitriolic, but it IS what I consider it).
Very simple answers to all points:
(1) It’s not the Woman’s choice about Her body. She is responsible for the survival, wellbeing of 2 Humans. Where does this ‘her body’, Ignoring the Baby, the Fetis come from?
(2) The Catholic Church always teaches that all Killing except in self defense is Always wrong. No exceptions, no spins.
(3) About “Dr” Tiller sometimes justifying 3rd trimester abortions in “protecting” the mental health, mind of the mom is almost insane.
Abortions almost always leave the would-be-mom Devastated with Guilt: The empty-crib-syndrome.
Even if delayed until past child-bearing age, almost every woman gets severelly hurt, disturbed by Approving the killing if her child.
That is the Law of Nature; Not religious spin.
(4) Anyone bothered by “some” in Church should turn to what the Church, Pastor teaches, not a few’s moral opinions.
(5) The ancient Hypocratic Oath requires the Doctor to Save, Heal Life, Never to kill it.
(6) The Catholic Church again teaches Ideally that Human Life is Prescious from Conception to Natural Death.
We have ‘always smiling’ mentally very ‘challenged people in My Catholic Church, as Altar Boys, and one is permanently wheel chair bound “Senior Citizen”. She is loved by all.
(7) one of our Priests is midlevel Muscular Sclerosis, with difficulty reading. He works the same 6-7 hours a day, 16 hours a day Working He, and Lord chose him to do.
He always has a smile, and is one of our top jokers.
And a brilliant mind, Online Professor, and self-appointed Geek.
Someone recently said that MS results in major Pain. One would never guess that!.
I find it deplorable that a “Doctor” whose widelly known job is Killing Fetuses or almost born to publically participate as Usher, Collector.
Anyone ever heard, especially his pastor, of “Thou Shalt Not Kill?”
God, Catholic Church love everyone. But do not want to publicize them While living in Gravest Sin of Killing, Nationally known.
Everyone is welcome in Church. Everyone. Church was instituted By Christ to Find the Lord, His Ways, and to find Goodness, Salvation.
“dr Tiller” was not practising medicine. His Infamous line of work is Prohibited by almost all jusisdictions in the USA, unless Some requirements are met.
One of our Major Problems in the USA is our Enormous Variety of conflicting Laws, Regulations. Many Cities, most Counties have own School Boards.
Remember the California car emission standards being higher than Other states?
How can Any Big Business operate with so many Different, often contrary regulations?
“dr Tiller”‘s Third Trimester abortions are said to be legal in only 3 jurisdictions.
Thanks everyone who commented. It has been a good discussion. I think everyone has aired their thoughts and probably everyone has made some valid points. This is a deeply divisive issue, one where people are passionate on all sides. All the more reason to talk quietly, respectfully, and temperately.