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There are some things that we tend to take for granted. We think they are statements so true that we never question them, never analyze, never contemplate alternatives. Such I think is the issue of ecumenism, the formal organized efforts to re-unite all Christian faiths, or more broadly, unite all dispirit faiths throughout the world into one.
Ask anyone, and most will agree, that God wishes such a thing. After all, there is but one God, or so most of us believe, however we may define that. And so therefore, it seems to be that there must be one perfect understanding of God which is embodied in some one faith, or so most believe. Of course, the rub is that all to many different faith traditions all claim to have the most perfect understanding.
Efforts to achieve such a union have been worked on for years by any number of organizations. The World Council of Churches is but one. But even from it’s inception, there have been those who have refused to join. Mostly it seems because there is always a requirement by some that certain basic principles of belief must be agreed upon. And that never happens, and so efforts are always stymied. The situation only becomes worse, when we move beyond Christianity into the numerous faith traditions of the world. How can there be a basic principles agreement? Other than “do unto others” most everything else is too different in concept to be the basis for agreement.
As a former Catholic, I of course was taught the necessity of at least a return to unity among Christians. If you haven’t guessed, Martin Luther is roundly criticized for tearing the Church asunder. The Eastern Church is given less culpability, though I am not sure that is deserved. In any event, what Luther began, clearly had no end. The numbers of new Christian groups multiplies at the rate of nearly 3,000 per year, and is now in the vicinity of some 35,000.
Catholics, at least those of a traditional orthodox persuasion see this as a horror, and await the “return” of the flock to the Mother Church. Of course, the awaited “returnees” have a rather different take on the issue. Not only are they, for the most part, uninterested in “returning” to Mother Church, but they await Mother Church to recognize that indeed it should be coming to them, as the true Church.
You see this all gets ugly very quickly. Nothing much gets accomplished when participants begin arguing about who is the “original” church, is there an original church at all, and what was the original teaching and doctrinal truths of that church. Having witnessed some of these “discussions” I can tell you they are brutal. Take a swing by Catholic Answers forum some time and be prepared to be insulted if you are non-Roman Catholic. You will soon learn that your faith, whatever it might be is polluted and silly, never apostolic, and is but one of those things warned of by Paul and others. Non-Catholics are, whatever their denomination, led by false prophets. Only return to the Mother Church with complete obedience to her word is sufficient to return to grace.
If you wish to approach from another way, try some of those fundamentalist evangelicals. They consider the Roman church that which is spoken of in Revelation. Not Rome, as in the emperor, but the very same Roman Catholic church. They of course aren’t returning anywhere, and they are sure there can be no unity until everyone agrees that scripture is literalistically true in every word. Welcome to creationism folks.
So, those of us who would wish for more unity, and less division, know that nothing like that is possible in any future we can so far see. And what’s more, we find it hard to see how that could ever happen. For goodness sakes, many of us can testify that whatever our faith tradition is, we are internally often badly split on serious issues. The Roman Catholic church certainly is, with any number of groups that run the gamut from strict and almost backward looking practices and dogma to those who are highly liberal and progressive in their outlook. There is sadly, badly veiled contempt held by both sides in this.
The Anglican church itself is clearly at odds within itself over issues of homosexuality and women. It would not surprise me to learn that there are other divisions as well. From what I have learned in my brief time as an Episcopalian, some of this is sadly vicious as well, with both sides taking increasingly hard lines.
The same is true of Baptists and other evangelicals, between those who are hardliner and those who favor a more moderate and progressive view. It is no doubt true that differences exist in probably every defined denomination. Those new “sects” have to appear for some reason, and the reason is, one assumes, that someone decided that their church had strayed from the “true” teaching and after futile attempts to get it back on track, some or many left and started their own church.
That is the state we find ourselves in unfortunately. It is not something I thought much about, except to think that those who were engaged in the attempt to forge bonds of agreements must be true saints to do such work. It was not anything I thought about until a few weeks ago.
Last week, many of you know, I was received into the Episcopal faith. Prior to that, I met with one of the priests of my parish to discuss things. The purpose was two fold. First, it was for them to answer questions I might have about the Church, but secondly it was about them getting an idea of where I was coming from theologically in order to determine whether the Church would be a good fit for me. Additionally, I’m sure they wished to get a handle on what ministries I might fit with, and how versed I was in biblical and theological issues.
We were talking about issues of difference, and I suggested that I found so much of interfaith dialogue frustrating because it always got bogged down in doctrinal differences instead of simply working on common problems. Poverty and social issues really don’t require that we are all on the same page regarding the issue of consubstantiation for instance.
Barbara suggested that it was probably not the best idea in the world to spend our time trying to “unite” doctrinally. I recall, taking that in, but being busy with other things, I let the significance of that statement wash over me with little recognition. She offered that we all have unique and special things to contribute to the great fund of Christianity, and unity would no doubt discard some of that.
Later, when I had time to digest and review that conversation, I saw that indeed, I had never considered whether the movement to unite was worthwhile. And, after having considered it for some weeks, I’m rather convinced Barbara was right.
Perhaps, we as this huge mosaic which we call Christianity are better off doing our separate things. Perhaps what is missing is the ability to recognize and respect that we all come to the table, enriching the full tapestry of Christianity by our differences. Perhaps it is through the fullness of our unique offerings that the clearest and most complete picture of God’s kingdom emerges.
I have long thought that the probability is that we have almost all of us, gotten it quite wrong. We have to one degree or another attempted to construct a faith that is faithful to what we understand to be the message of Jesus. Given the plethora of opinions on that, just in the first two centuries following his crucifixion, I’d say we have but a limited clue of it really. Things, as we move through the centuries, just get worse.
Just one example will suffice. Nowhere did Jesus ever suggest that a priesthood need be either male nor celibate. True, the men who wrote about his ministry, long after his crucifixion I might add, did not declare that Jesus picked women and named them apostles. That of course may mean no more than that the writer of the gospel or letter or such never understood it that way. But more clearly Jesus never restricted the priesthood to a celibate lifestyle.
That came much later, through the Spanish church. And since it was later adopted through what was then Christendom, it has stuck. Now the Roman church declares that said ideas (celibacy and male priesthood) is the will of the Holy Spirit and thus they have no power to change it. Convenient, but hardly definitive I would say. If you talk to Roman Catholics who adhere to the belief in celibacy and to a male priesthood, they will surely tell you that the Church has no power to change this. This is God’s will, evidenced by “tradition” which is synonymous with God’s will in their opinion. In other words, we never thought about doing it differently, so the fact that we have done it one way for a long time, is evidence that this is the way God wants it. Lousy logic I’d say.
So it hardly seems to me that today, we have gotten it more right than they did in say 50 CE or so. And that’s just Christianity. Things get no better, and only get worse when we add in all the other faiths, some of whom believe things quite drastically different than what is taught in Christian circles. Yet they have a rich heritage, and deep wisdom as anyone who has read sacred texts in Buddhism, Islam, or Hinduism can attest.
Many of the eastern faiths offer a breathtakingly beautiful explanation of God and humanity. So much resonates with us. We can recognize truth in what are otherwise foreign doctrines and beliefs. We are enriched and opened in amazing ways. We benefit greatly. We are enlarged spiritually, fed with good food.
So I have come to a new conclusion about interfaith dialogue for the purpose of joining ourselves into one homogeneous and should I suggest bland concoction called Christianity. I think it’s a bad idea. I think we should stop worrying about it and arguing about it. I think we should worry about poverty, disease, and all the ills that face the world. We don’t have to agree about apostolic successions and Eucharistic prayers to address hunger do we? I think God might prefer we address those issues first.
It’s just what I was thinking about today.
**Cross Posted at Here I am Lord
Sherry, I’ve given you a blogging award. I’ll be back later to comment.
All great points, especially your conclusion about social justice, with which I am in complete agreement. It might not be a question of either/or, though. Just because there is significant disagreement doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t rethink what the Church universal means. Maybe a looser model based on the sacraments might be a good start?
Wonderful ideas, thanks for sharing them.
What a post Sherry! I have this notion that God looks at all of our denominational madness (the figure I read has it as closer to 38,000 different ones!)with eyes of compassion.
Because, as you said, we dicker around details while the hungry stay the way, the naked remain unclothed, the prisoner is not visited etc.
However, I do think we all have different needs and as a result, will group together differently. Just today I wrote about my own quite unexpected return to the Roman church. With all its many shortcomings – and there are many, it is where I belong.
So we end up in these places, but I agree with you that the focus should not be the institutions but should be on those in need… which is each other.
During the summer and Lambeth and whatever Roman nonsense was of the moment, I kept saying that what I think comes next has nothing of what Peter Akinola, Pope Benedict XVI, Rowan Williams or Rick Warren has in mind… I think that what comes next may well be ecumenism.
We won’t get there by arguing the details of who is right.
I do have a question for you though- and it is about your words here:
If you wish to approach from another way, try some of those fundamentalist evangelicals. They consider the Roman church that which is spoken of in Revelation. Not Rome, as in the emperor, but the very same Roman Catholic church. They of course aren’t returning anywhere, and they are sure there can be no unity until everyone agrees that scripture is literalistically true in every word. Welcome to creationism folks.
I am confused – are you saying that the RC church is interpreting Scripture literally? Maybe I am just being dense, it is late!
Email me if it easier than dealing with in comments, festinalente07 at gmail dot com.
Thanks and peace to you always.
hmmmm –I was always of the mind that difference and diversity is good (I mean, look at creation, right?!) –so, perhaps it is just my perspective, but I never thought the goal of ecumenism was unity –but that it was respect, and indeed seeing first what we could agree upon, but then working together for the greater good.
When the RC and Episcopal churches decided that recognizing the baptism of each other –they decided that it was not OUR unity, but the unity of Christ that we celebrated…. and from that unity we can work together, and we do on many levels.
And when we worked with the Lutherans, we recognize not only baptism, but that we can eat together without “leaving home” –and we did this even while recognizing the validity but differences of our understanding the orders in ordination (I don’t think the Lutherans have permanent deacons for example….)
ecumenism doesn’t have to mean elimination of difference, but rather the celebration of difference even while recognizing points where we are the same.
But perhaps that is my episcopalian view… and if the RCs and Orthodox are bent on unity in the work of ecumenism, –well then, I think they should take another look at the diversity of creation!
Jan, how very sweet of you. I’ll be over later. I have a list of places to attend to today! lol
Donald, I agree, it shouldn’t be either/or, but it seems that every time you start to discuss common issues, it gets bogged down in doctrinal differences. I don’t care if you are a Mormon or a Sikh if you want to work against poverty, yet many claim they cannot work with “sinners” whom they often consider other faiths to be. This may be the extremes, but I understand that there is little positive that comes out of the WCC for instance in terms of doctrinal agreement.
Fran, I’ll email you with a more thorough response, but I was referring to mostly the self-defined ‘non churched evangelicals who claim the great whore of babylon is Rome, meaning the RCC. Of course that is nonsense, but try telling them that. They think that the RCC and no doubt Anglicans and Methodists and others are doing the bidding of the devil. But there are fundamentalists in the RCC and you can find a plethora of them at Catholic Answers. I stopped trying to discuss issues there, oh more than two months ago. They are unmoveable, and not afew are creationists.
Margaret, I sure was taught that it was unity, and that meant the return of all christian denominations to Rome. Rome presumes quite seriously to be the “real Church.” It all gets rather confusing when they reach out to Jews and other non-Christians. They are of two minds symultaneously it seems, wanting to work together yet claiming that mostly you can’t be saved without conversion, except that God may have other means of grace. It gets confusing to be sure.
I learned that Lutherans and others I think, perhaps Presbyterians and Methodists have been working together with Episcopalians to achieve some real unity of a sacramental caste. When our rector leaves shortly, we have been advised that there are I believe some Lutheran ministers who will be helping out with our assistant rector until a new rector has been selected. I’m quite happy to know this, and hope that more is done to erase the divisions.
As I understand it there is much unity between TEC and RCC now, especially insofar as transfer of priests are concerned. But it seems I think more one way. I certainly defer to you in this Margaret, you obviously know a great deal more than I.
My reflection was more of the reorienting of my own mind since entering the TEC. I am happy to recognize diversity as a good thing.
Ok, I understand now. Sorry- I was having a dense moment. Do email me though- I would love to hear from you.
Sure did Fran! lol
So I have come to a new conclusion about interfaith dialogue for the purpose of joining ourselves into one homogeneous and should I suggest bland concoction called Christianity. I think it’s a bad idea. I think we should stop worrying about it and arguing about it. I think we should worry about poverty, disease, and all the ills that face the world. We don’t have to agree about apostolic successions and Eucharistic prayers to address hunger do we? I think God might prefer we address those issues first.
A-frickin’-men.
I love thos post. As Friends say, it speaks to my condition.
I don’t want to be part of One Big Church. I like the diversity of faiths that God has given us. Yes, I do believe there’s a reason why God has chosen to speak to us in so many different ways. I like it that way. And I sure don’t want to give up the path I have chosen for some One Size Fits All version. It’s bad enough socks don’t come sized any more.
It took me fifty years to get here. I’m not leaving now.
We should focus on the two most important commandments Jesus gave us: to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Most of the Majors cover that anyway, each in their own way.
Do that, and the rest would be gravy.
The problem is, some folks practice a version of “faith” that is more about “power” than love. We need to get past that (and them), too.
*this* post…
A super post, Sherry! I really liked when you pointed out that RESPECT and RECOGNITION are called for amongst the various differing groups. So true.
Lately, I’ve been reading about the history of the Church and celibacy, etc. at a ourcivilisation.com. Oh,it is so very interesting and eye-opening.
Dave, It took me a long time to see my way to this vision as well. And as I said, it certainly didn’t just come to me. I had always thought of the multiplicity of Christian denominations as our dirty littl not so secret secret. Now I see it as you do, a blessing from God so that we can together form one beautiful tapestry of faith.
Oh Jeannelle, thanks for that link. I’ll go have a look. The issue of celibacy is most interesting, certainly not something that the early church espoused. It became a practicality as I understand it.